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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby BillinDurham » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:45 pm

BillinDurham wrote:
Bobturner wrote:Bill, if you go to the VAF post you made today; look about 5 or 6 posts earlier in that thread; you’ll see my post with my HX settings for the Trio. Some are quite different than 100%.
Bob

Thanks Bob! I did just that and printed it off. (obviously you can ignore my post on the GRT board).

I'll change it to the settings you use and fly it next week. Will report back.

I did copy your settings and fly with them - no change in the wing rocking - some noticeable changes in normal ops.
I then went and really 'wrung out' the setting options from 0 to 1,000 - no change in the wing rocking but now I need to get things back to something more normal for my normal flight ops.

Still at ground zero on this one.
Bill Watson
8NC8 Durham, NC
RV10 HX, G430w, NavWorx, EIS
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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby BillinDurham » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:46 pm

Just for reference, here are the details of my GRT, Trutrak, G430w configuration:

Here are the details for my setup:
Trutrak DIIVSGV running Version 2.51 software
GRT HXr running Version 7.01 (current config)
GRT HX running Version 11.00 (previous config though the SW might have been an earlier version)
G430w running Version 5.20 (and GPS V5.00)
Bill Watson
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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby Bobturner » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:08 pm

I presume you’ve looked at the autopilot to aileron push rod mechanical connection, for any possible slop or wear? Or the autopilot mount, loose bolt?
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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby BillinDurham » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:39 pm

Bobturner wrote:I presume you’ve looked at the autopilot to aileron push rod mechanical connection, for any possible slop or wear? Or the autopilot mount, loose bolt?

Not since my last conditional just over 6 months ago. It got a pretty good look then.

The situation I have is one where:
- When I take the GRT out of the system by driving the TT AP directly by the ARINC out signal from the G430w - there is no wing rock, zero.
- When I hit a switch and put the GRT into the system by driving the TT AP by the ARINC out signal from the GRT, which in turn is being driven by the ARINC out signal from the G430 - I get the wing rock

With that being said, and while staring at my wiring diagram, I'm questioning everything about how this all actually works. More study required.

For reference
Attachments
Panel Wiring thru Fast Stack Pro Hub.PDF
(3.45 MiB) Downloaded 23 times
Bill Watson
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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby Bobturner » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:31 am

Bill, you’re right. If the TT, by itself, runs okay, that should rule out loose brackets.
This is another guess you could try fairly easily: for my Trio, I switch all 3 lines (ARINC pair, plus serial) when going from direct gps to autopilot, to HX to autopilot. I don’t think TT recommends that, but Trio does. Wouldn’t hurt to try.
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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby BillinDurham » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:15 pm

Bobturner wrote:Bill, you’re right. If the TT, by itself, runs okay, that should rule out loose brackets.
This is another guess you could try fairly easily: for my Trio, I switch all 3 lines (ARINC pair, plus serial) when going from direct gps to autopilot, to HX to autopilot. I don’t think TT recommends that, but Trio does. Wouldn’t hurt to try.

Well, that's interesting. What's the thinking behind that?

I'm going to study that for a bit and consider it.

On an unrelated note, Jeff sent this to me in response to an email. Since you are thinking about this with me, I just thought I'd share. Hope Jeff doesn't mind.

"GNAV mode sends the roll commands, unmodified, from the 430W to the TT. Gains would not affect it. If it wing rocks in that mode then it must be some other data besides the roll command that's causing it. When the TT gets data directly from the 430W, it gets two sets of data, the cross track data and the roll command. The EFIS only sends the roll command. The EFIS also sends the current roll and heading, which the TT could be using to adjust itself. I should look at the roll and heading to see if they are rocking even when the TT is steady from the 430W."
Bill Watson
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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby BillinDurham » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:13 pm

Bobturner wrote:Bill, you’re right. If the TT, by itself, runs okay, that should rule out loose brackets.
This is another guess you could try fairly easily: for my Trio, I switch all 3 lines (ARINC pair, plus serial) when going from direct gps to autopilot, to HX to autopilot. I don’t think TT recommends that, but Trio does. Wouldn’t hurt to try.

Bob the more I studied this switching situation, the more I'm thinking that this may be the root of my problem.

Right now, when the GRT EFIS is driving the TT AP, there is no RS232 serial output from the EFIS going to the TT, only the ARINC link. My assumption has been that all necessary steering data going from the EFIS to the TT is provided over the ARINC link. The RS232 Serial input to the TT is always connected to an output on the G430.

However, Jeff's explanation of exactly what data is sent suggests to me that the TT should get ARINC and serial data directly from the EFIS. Or when the switch is thrown, the TT should get ARINC and serial data directly from the G430.

I'm waiting for Jeff's response to an email to see what he thinks.

Thanks much for engaging here!
Bill Watson
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RV10 HX, G430w, NavWorx, EIS
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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby BillinDurham » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 am

BillinDurham wrote:
Bobturner wrote:Bill, you’re right. If the TT, by itself, runs okay, that should rule out loose brackets.
This is another guess you could try fairly easily: for my Trio, I switch all 3 lines (ARINC pair, plus serial) when going from direct gps to autopilot, to HX to autopilot. I don’t think TT recommends that, but Trio does. Wouldn’t hurt to try.

Bob the more I studied this switching situation, the more I'm thinking that this may be the root of my problem.

Right now, when the GRT EFIS is driving the TT AP, there is no RS232 serial output from the EFIS going to the TT, only the ARINC link. My assumption has been that all necessary steering data going from the EFIS to the TT is provided over the ARINC link. The RS232 Serial input to the TT is always connected to an output on the G430.

However, Jeff's explanation of exactly what data is sent suggests to me that the TT should get ARINC and serial data directly from the EFIS. Or when the switch is thrown, the TT should get ARINC and serial data directly from the G430.


I have since rewired the serial link to the TT AP so that it now is always connected to the GRT HXr. Absolutely no change in behavior or performance in any mode. I conclude that this is neither the root or a factor in wing rocking problem.

After rewiring as described above, I thoroughly tried every combination of EFIS configuration setting I could think of over several flights and found no difference in the wing rocking behavior. The problem now is, the wing rocking is absolutely driving me crazy. Previously I had learned to ignore it but now it's impossible. Previously I never switched between G430 ARINC and HXr ARINC but now find myself doing it constantly to eliminate the wing rock. But I can't have VNAV and steady level wings at the same time!

Jeff, please examine the demo files I sent previously to see what's going on.
Bill Watson
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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby Bobturner » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:02 am

Did you try Jeff's suggestion? Let the 430 drive the TT; watch the efis carefully. Does the AI or heading indicator (tape) ever "twitch" (even if the plane is rock-solid level)? I'm really curious as what can be going on here.
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Re: When HX (now HXr) is driving TT AP it constantly wing ro

Postby BillinDurham » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:44 pm

Bobturner wrote:Did you try Jeff's suggestion? Let the 430 drive the TT; watch the efis carefully. Does the AI or heading indicator (tape) ever "twitch" (even if the plane is rock-solid level)? I'm really curious as what can be going on here.

I'm missing where Jeff's suggestion made(?) Maybe I misunderstood. I checked and made sure my settings were the same as suggested in his 5/20 post.

But I'll do exactly what you are suggesting here... that makes sense as a next check. I'll record the results as well. Have a long leg coming up on Monday.

Thanks.
Bill Watson
8NC8 Durham, NC
RV10 HX, G430w, NavWorx, EIS
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